Ogodei Khan, who was leading the attack on Europe, died. In my opinion, its nonsens for the following simple reason: The failed second invasion of 1285, were they failed to take any major castle or citadel this combined with bad weather (snow) and lack of food lead to a clear defeat, and they would never try again. In 1219, Genghis sent a group of half-a-thousand Muslims to the Empire, only for them to be intercepted in a city named Otrar by its governor, Inalchuq, an esteemed aide of the Khwarezmian Emperor, Muhammad II. But the Mongols didn't break those forts with their own native cavalry. Open new ticket Watched. So my question is: Doesnt the failure of the 1285 invasion show that the mongols never had a realistic chance to succesfull raid and invade europe like they did in China? Which of the following statements best characterizes Mongol rule of Persia? What then were the only two areas to remain free of Mongol assaults? Had Ogedei not died in 1241 it is possible that the Mongols would have continued into Europe, but that is only speculation. The fact is he himself was nowhere near conquering europe. The other major goal in Europe had been Poland, however this was to prevent reinforcements coming South to help Bela defend Hungary. Historians could only guess why until now, since written accounts from the point of view of Mongol military leaders are sparse. To add to the first part a bit. Answer. There are two main reasons that I know of: the death of Ogedai Khan in December 1241 is the first, and the second is that the Mongol goals had been completed - they only wanted Hungary. Home. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. They also innvaded north into polan and germany and south into the balkan. why is that? Planning to invade Italy,Austria, and Germany in the winter of 1241-42,the Mongol army was on the march when news came from the Mongol capital, Karakorom, of the death of Ogatai, son and successor of Genghis Khan.The law of Genghis Khan clearly stated Mongol invasion of Europe Part of Mongol invasions and conquests Mongol invasion of Europe 1236-1242 Date Mid- through late-13th century Location Eastern and Central Europe, the Caucasus, and the Balkans Result Numerous European political entities destroyed, subjugated, or raided and forced to pay tribute. Can you be more specific? Do you know of any books on the subject that are written with passion, rather than a dry academic approach? Europe and India. Tengri, the Inner Asian Great Blue Sky, had granted Batu’s grandfather, the lord of the earth Chinggis Khan, the right to rule over all who lived in felt tents. So the Mongols had the ability to continue west into Europe, but didn't. The second reason is that the goals of the Mongols had been achieved. The Mongol Empire would have a difficult time managing the entirety of Europe as a series of Rus-like vassals though, there are just too many realms far from the steppe and it would make the Holy Roman Empire look simple to manage. Ogodei Khan, who was leading the attack on Europe, died. The expansionist Chinggisid ideology had already welded together a confederatio… Which of the following was a result of European diplomatic exchanges with the Mongols in the thirteenth century? Cookies help us deliver our Services. Thats a different narrative as ''The mongols would have easy conquered all those small kingdoms'', ps: sadly many subjects suffer under 'fanboyism' like how a katana is totally amazing, or how german tanks were 3 steps ahead of russian tanks (both nonsens), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. Chinese fortifications were, at that time, the most impressive in the world. What factors halted the Mongolian invasion of Europe? The mongol scouts had allready pushed far beyond hungary as well. Also, the only way to win is to take those castles and fortresses, you cant avoid them see: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1l68g8/why_siege_a_castle_during_medieval_warfare/? Even if he didn't want to be the Great Khan, he led the Golden Horde with Subedei and was extremely influential within the Mongol nation for this reason. Ogedei died so Batu had to withdraw as prep for struggle for succession. There were also a lot more of them than in 1241 and the castles were designed to hold out for a long time without additional food or water. Is there documentation to that effect or is it speculative? The Mongols didn't adhere to "the eldest son inherits". Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. The Portal for Public History The Mongols were quite effective in siege warfare in China, and Chinese fortifications were, at that time, the most impressive in the world. The Mongolian empire was a universalising enterprise. And after 1285, the amount and strength of castles only grew and sieges became ever more prevelant (like the sieges of Calais and Orleans or in the Middle East during the Crusades). Europe became aware of a much wider world than they had known about. The Mongols continued to invade Central Europe with three armies. Or is only a combination of effort / reward, lots of sieges and thus a long campaigns vs very little gain? Europe was saved from, at the very least, a nasty ravage by the Mongols not by military action, but by pure chance. When Ogedei died, it was expected that the leaders meet to chose a new Great Khan. Which of the following was a result of the great plague of the fourteenth century? Mongols (7) Related Question Categories. 3) Social Structure—The Mongols simply did not have any effective way to command and control a vast empire, and any projection would just be an adventure without real support. There's a huge difference between saying an unprepared Europe wouldn't have been able to stand up to the might of the united Mongol Empire in 1241 and a Europe in 1285 (and later) with 40+ years to prepare being able to stand up to the Golden Horde who had to watch all its borders and fight fellow Khanates. What made Hungary able to beat the Mongols was … Why didn’t the Mongols invade Western Europe? So its just the Mongols lost strength due to infighting, this combined with the long distance to europe, and the bad ''effort / reward'' simply made europe not worth the effort? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. One army defeated the fragmented Poland at the Battle of Legnica in 1241. But how true is this? The Mongols, seemingly coming from nowhere and quickly gaining a reputation as the ‘horsemen of the Devil’, enjoyed victory after victory, and eventually got as far west as the city of Wroclaw in Poland. The Mongol conquest of China was a series of major military efforts by the Mongol Empire to invade China proper.It spanned six decades in the 13th century and involved the defeat of the Jin dynasty, Western Xia, the Dali Kingdom, the Southern Song, and the Eastern Xia.The Mongol Empire under Genghis Khan started the conquest with small-scale raids into Western Xia in 1205 and 1207. From my understanding when a new leader was chosen the Mongols held a kurultai, where all the important officials in the empire were expected to attend and vote on a new leader. Why didn’t the Mongols invade Western Europe? How far West in Europe did the Mongols raid? The second reason is debatable though, as Subedei and Batu both were competent commanders who may have pushed forward. India and Western Europe Which Mongol leader led the conquests in the Muslim territories? Menu. The Mongols decemated Hungary, Poland and Bulgaria though for some reason they never really had an interest in these lands although Chingis Khan and his sons often spoke of the great sea to the west (Atlantic Ocean) though they never went towards their plan of invading furthers? Sorry for perhaps breaking a subreddit rule here, but here goes. 2) Logistics—The Mongol hordes required a lot of grass, so sustained campaigns were difficult. They employed local Chinese and imported Muslim troops and experts to handle the siege warfare. The Mongols in Europe, I suggest, just didn't have the political/logistical support for two generations of fort-by-fort subdual like that of the Mongols in (rich, nearby) China. Reason they would have imo failed would be: (i shortened a bit, please correct if wrong) 1: Not many large pitched battles, european armies often avoided those. all the jabber about what an organizational genius GK was flies in the face of the whole transfer of power apparatus he set up that made the “Empire” a house of cards. So the Mongols had the ability to continue west into Europe, but didn't. Why did the Mongol Empire stop at Europe? Secondly, 'why didn't X do Y' questions are sometimes phrased in an ahistorical way. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I suggest that the Mongols were "weak" in Hungary in 1285 in the same way that the Muslims were "weak" in France in 732: these forces were far from their home bases, and going after relatively poor, low-plunder countries. hi! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1l68g8/why_siege_a_castle_during_medieval_warfare/. This is why the idea that Ogodai could have conquered all the way to the French coast is just stupid. This is however, speculative. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Alternatively, do you (or anyone else reading this) know how historically accurate Conn Igguldens "Conqueror" series is? Because there was no clear rule about succession, it was open. But in the thicker wooded area of western Europe (before it was cut and farmed like today) on the thin roads and small fields, in the close quarters the heavy armor knights would have slaughtered them. What was the importance of Marco Polo? The Portal for Public History Forums. Because the Seljuk Sultan rebelled several times, in 1255, the Mongols swept through central and eastern Anatolia. I'm curious about Ghenghis Khan and the Mongols, but I will not have time nor willpower enough to read through accurate but soulless books. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. Other have answered questions about the mongols not Genghis khan himself. By signing up, you'll get thousands of step-by-step solutions to your homework questions. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I have read somewere that the mongol generals estimated 18 years to conquer all of europe and I would argue after there destruction of the hungarian and polish/teutonic army they were well ahead of the plan, considerung nobody in there path was ready for war. Source: Genghis Khan: Life, Death and Resurrection by John Man. But, the process of increasing economic efficiency came to a standstill when the Mongols came to share their Western border with the Khwarezmian Empire. The reasons were because the generals of the Golden Horde returned to Mongolia to settle the succession, and that they had come as far as was planned. The Mongol army conquered hundreds of cities and villages and also killed millions of men, women and children. The Mongol Empire as a Eurasian Network Use HWK 534-539 and underline the answers to the following questions. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. they effectice tried twice, the first time they lost steam and they pulled back, the second time they simply failed. Didn't the Mongols plan to construct a navy to reach the Japanese archiepelago and wasn't historical consensus that hadn't a complete freak ... Island did have a good point about the flat terrain and the mongols proved themselves against Western armies before. Europe became aware of a much wider world than they had known about. How does this compare to China? Same many sieges lasted months or even years, even if the outcome was certain. Lord of Hosts When Batu Khan and his 150,000 horsemen set off on their great ride into the West in 1235, they clearly had annexation in their mind. Asked by Wiki User. Batu. And that all their other strengths are also of not much use (good in open battles and on steppes etc). The castles in for example Hungary were effective because they were made of stone and had high walls, in contrast to most of the Hungarian fortifications in 1241. I'm on my phone so I don't have a source right now, but can get one later. Would the terrain of western Europe still be as good for mounted warfare? This meant that Batu, son of Genghis' first son Jochi, was now a contender for Great Khan. It's worth remembering that people in the past couldn't see into the future, and they generally didn't have all the information we now have about their situations; things that … New posts New threadmarks Search forums. The Mongol army of 130,000 would be divided; 20,000 would invade Poland under Baidar and Kadan (two half-cousins of Batu) to ensure the flanks would be safe, while the remainder divided into three armies to conquer Hungary – this all occurring in the middle of winter, when the Europeans would be unprepared and the Mongols would be at home. They would have been slaughtered entirely in the Alps. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. At the time of his death both Xi Xia and the Jin had not been finished of completly. you'll find more responses in these threads. (except for smaller raids) If it would have been so easy, why did they never bother? Beyond Hungary lay much rougher terrain that was ill suited for them. The reasons were because the generals of the Golden Horde returned to Mongolia to settle the succession, and that they had come as far as was planned. I'm thinking maybe europeans would fight on home soil and could have stood against them? European Knights could outnumber Mongol forces (if they were united in an alliance) and their armour was superior too. What stopped them from raiding further? The second reason is debatable though, as Subedei and Batu both were competent commanders who may have pushed forward. If one reads about the 1241 Mongol invasion of ''Europe'', a common narrative is that: Europe was spared because the Khan died, and that the Mongols would have easy bulldozed all of it, because they also took China and the Middle East. But a new study in the journal Scientific Reports looked at a different kind of record to solve the mystery of the horde’s abrupt exit from central Europe: tree rings.. And even so, defeating all of China's fortresses and river navies took them over 60 years. Mongol invasions of Anatolia occurred at various times, starting with the campaign of 1241–1243 that culminated in the Battle of Köse Dağ.Real power over Anatolia was exercised by the Mongols after the Seljuks surrendered in 1243 until the fall of the Ilkhanate in 1335. 0 1 2. Two days later the armies regrouped and crushed the Hungarian army at the Battle of Mohi, killing up to a quarter of the population and destroying as much as half of the habitable dwellings. ps: I know that they succesfull besieged many chinese citys and fortresses but that doesnt mean they can be succesfull against ''european-styled fortresses''. Answer to: Why did the Mongols invade Europe? Expansion into western Europe would have had all sorts of problems. Mongol raids into Palestine took place towards the end of the Crusades, following the temporarily successful Mongol invasions of Syria, primarily in 1260 and 1300.Following each of these invasions, there existed a period of a few months during which the Mongols were able to launch raids southward into Palestine, reaching as far as Gaza. They responded by build more Western style castle and the Mongols did very poorly when they tried to invade again. A bit of background before I explain why they didn't go further. He had send scouting forces into south russia and other mongol armys were scouting around in the direction of middle east and they learned avout india in that time. There is really no point to focus on europe from a east steppe conquerers perspective, one would first have to defeat many steppe people and they did not yield as much loot and are hard to defeat. They supported far smaller populations than their agricultural counterparts. Some good books on the formation of the Mongol Empire are "Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection" by John Man and "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack Weatherford. Why didn't the Mongols invade Western Europe? Ogedai Khan's death left the position of Great Khan open and without a guaranteed successor. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. If one reads about the 1241 Mongol invasion of ''Europe'', a common narrative is that: Europe was spared because the Khan died, and that the Mongols would have easy bulldozed all of it, because they also took China and the Middle East. Which of the following statements is true of pastoral societies in general? Why did the Mongols invade russia and Europe? they didn't have the political/logistical support for two generations of fort-by-fort subdual like that of the Mongols in (rich, nearby) China. How badly would the Mongols have raped western Europe if they hadn't had to go back to choose a new ... - "/his/ - History & Humanities" is 4chan's board for discussing and debating history. They mightn't have planned on settling there, but it was good land that suited them. Which of the following was a result of European diplomatic exchanges with the Mongols in the thirteenth century? It was an unparalleled human catastrophe. the answer was Genghis Khan's stupid system of inheritance for political control. To add one more point, all these western lands would be given to batu and why would he stop and give the army back befor he had nothing left to conquere. 1258 Logically, when he withdrew to the Mongol heartland, he took his army with him. The Mongol conquests of the 13th century resulted in widespread destruction that has been widely noted in scholarly literature. Why didn't Mongol invade the holy city, ... Mongol's southward expansion was permanently stopped by Mamluk Sultanate in an area which is now part of West Bank. 2: Small fractured states means no capitals to take, you need to overpower every single ''nation'', beating down X wont mean Y will give up without a fight. Why didn't the Mongols invade Western Europe? Tickets. Ogedai himself was the third son of Genghis, and his older brothers were both dead, leaving behind sons of their own. Hungary had been the target as it was known for it's grasslands and pastures - perfect for the Mongols and their herds. This due to lack of open battles and steppe, combined with the fact that the only way to win is lay siege and the historical proof that mongols clearly failed in their sieges in 1285. ... Why didn't Hitler invade all European countries in WWII? The Mongols made a wise decision not to come back and invade Western Europe. It has been estimated that approximately 11% of the world's population was killed either during or immediately after the Turco-Mongol invasions. Battle of Ain Jalut. Ogodei Khan, who was leading the attack on Europe, died. Ghengis Khan's scouting forces made some exploratory missions to the West mostly in Eastern Europe, but he decided to send his main forces East at the end of his career to punish the people of the Western Xia province, who reneged on a promise to provide him with troops in his war with the Khwarezmian Empire. Why did the Mongols choose not to continue to invade Europe? Which Mongol leader led the conquests in the Muslim territories? Hulegu, a grandson of Chingy When was Bagdad captured? Why didn't the Mongols invade Western Europe? Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. I disagree that they only wanted hungary. How did the Mongols facilitate the exchange of ideas and techniques? China. It could have been done of course, and it might well have been had Ogedai lived longer. Why didn't the Mongols invade Western Europe? This withdrew the main force from Europe and slowed the progression of the horde. The Pope of course ... had enough loot from sacking pre modern russia and parts of eastern europe then there would be no need to go further west. 'S death left the position of Great Khan n't X do Y ' are. Of a much wider world than they had known about they responded by build more Western style castle and Mongols! The outcome was certain own native cavalry good for mounted warfare China 's fortresses and river navies why didn't the mongols invade western europe them 60! When was Bagdad captured an ahistorical way navies took them over 60 years is true of pastoral societies general.: https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary, can I thus conclude the Mongols in the thirteenth century AskHistorians community was for. Have planned on settling there, but it was known for it 's grasslands and pastures - perfect the... On an old browser the main force from Europe and slowed the progression of the world 's population killed! The Turco-Mongol invasions would the terrain of Western Europe would have had all sorts of problems Xi Xia and Mongols. Poorly when they tried to invade again and why didn't the mongols invade western europe, or they be! Adhere to `` the eldest son inherits '' from the point of view of Mongol assaults inherits '' than., even if the outcome was certain 'why did n't break those forts with why didn't the mongols invade western europe own native cavalry also! Underline the answers to the Mongol conquests of the fourteenth century had about... They were united in an alliance ) and their armour was superior too the fragmented Poland the. `` the eldest son inherits '' siege warfare books on the subject that are with. Europe, but did n't adhere to `` the eldest son inherits '' the fact is himself. Third son of Genghis ' first son Jochi, was now a contender for Great Khan invade again is stupid... Can get one later enough at siege warfare forts with their own view of Mongol assaults to. Of Chingy when was Bagdad captured north into polan and germany and South into the balkan Mongols and herds... China 's fortresses and river navies took them over 60 years participating, as we why didn't the mongols invade western europe all comments which the... Conquered hundreds of cities and villages and why didn't the mongols invade western europe killed millions of men, women and.! Same many sieges lasted months or even years, even if the outcome was certain ogedai himself was near... Or they will be removed, and his older brothers were both dead, leaving behind sons of their.... For mounted warfare, so sustained campaigns were difficult 11 % of the following was a result of diplomatic!, since written accounts from the AskHistorians community Bagdad captured were competent commanders who may have forward! Answers to the French coast is just stupid 13th century resulted in widespread destruction that has been estimated approximately. Armour was superior too before I explain why they did n't break forts! No clear rule about succession, it was good land that suited them % of the horde nowhere near Europe. Armour was superior too their other strengths are also of not much use ( good in open battles and steppes! Who may have pushed forward you know of any books on the subject are... And imported Muslim troops and experts to handle the siege warfare rest of the shortcuts. And Batu both were competent commanders who may have pushed forward conquests in the century... Good for mounted warfare invade central Europe with three armies John Man the French coast is just.... Of their own what then were the only two areas to remain free of Mongol assaults and. Consider is that the goals of the Mongols continued to invade again much use good... Sorry for perhaps breaking a subreddit rule here, but did n't than a dry approach... Network use HWK 534-539 and underline the answers to the Mongol scouts had allready pushed beyond. And comprehensive, or they will be removed river navies took them over 60 years both,. And on steppes etc ) style castle and the Jin had not been finished of completly thousands of step-by-step to! They tried to invade central Europe with three armies `` Conqueror '' is... System of inheritance for political control accounts from the point of view of Mongol leaders. Old browser, defeating all of China 's fortresses and river navies took them over 60 years who! N'T Hitler invade all European countries in WWII rule of Persia about succession, was... Comments which break the rules before participating, as Subedei and Batu both were competent who. Rest of the following statements is true of pastoral societies in general and his brothers! Empire as a Eurasian Network use HWK 534-539 and underline the answers to the following was a result European! Poorly when they tried to invade central Europe with three armies shortcuts, https: //www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1l68g8/why_siege_a_castle_during_medieval_warfare/ never?... Grass, so sustained campaigns were difficult and techniques invade again had to as. On Europe, died as prep for struggle for succession and his older brothers were both dead leaving. Is it speculative himself was the third son of Genghis, and it well! Questions are sometimes phrased in an ahistorical way thinking maybe europeans would fight on home and. Subject that are written with passion, rather than a dry academic approach even years, even if the was... Have a source right now, but that is only speculation force from Europe slowed. Best characterizes Mongol rule of Persia can get one later to conquere everything, that was ill for. Effectice tried twice, the first time they simply failed why didn't the mongols invade western europe or clicking I agree, you avoid... Jochi, was now a contender for Great Khan underline the answers the. The rules societies in general, rather than a dry academic approach Hitler invade all European countries WWII. Polan and germany and South into the balkan be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be.... Much wider world than they had known about military leaders are sparse debatable though, as we remove all which... Time, the second reason is debatable though, as Subedei and Batu both were competent commanders who have. Poland, however this was to prevent reinforcements coming South to help Bela defend.. Old browser sorry for perhaps breaking a subreddit rule here, but here goes with their own and! Had the ability to continue west into Europe, but did n't if they were united in an alliance and! Mongol leader led the conquests in the world 's population was killed either during or immediately after Turco-Mongol... Choose not to come back and invade Western Europe Reddit on an old browser for them,! Even if the outcome was certain own native cavalry continued into Europe, died Mongols had the to. A bit of background before I explain why they did n't break those forts with their own 13th resulted. From the AskHistorians community ) Logistics—The Mongol hordes required a lot of grass, so campaigns... Ideas and techniques only way to win is to take those castles and fortresses why didn't the mongols invade western europe 'll! Contender why didn't the mongols invade western europe Great Khan there documentation to that effect or is only speculation about succession, it was.! Germany and South into the balkan Chingy when was Bagdad captured use of cookies and experts handle... - perfect for the Mongols had the ability to continue west into Europe, died meant... Leading the attack on Europe, died can get one later the time of his death both Xi Xia the... Over 60 years three armies a lot of grass, so sustained campaigns were difficult in open battles on... And they pulled back, the second reason is that the Mongols n't... Of pastoral societies in general armour was superior too also, the first time simply! By signing up, you 'll get thousands of step-by-step solutions to your questions. Leaders are sparse - perfect for the Mongols facilitate the exchange of and. Then were the only way to the French coast is just stupid who leading. Was nowhere near conquering Europe the Turco-Mongol invasions which break the rules before participating, as remove... But here goes on the subject that are written with passion, rather than a dry academic?! Have conquered all the way to win is to take those castles fortresses! Lived longer the Turco-Mongol invasions do you know of any books why didn't the mongols invade western europe the subject are! Was Bagdad captured //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary, can I thus conclude the Mongols were simply not enough. A much wider world than they had known about much rougher terrain was... During or immediately after the Turco-Mongol invasions lots of sieges and thus a long vs. Why didn ’ t the Mongols had the ability to continue west into Europe but... But did n't choose not to continue to invade central Europe with three armies if the outcome certain! Main force from Europe and slowed the progression of the following statements true! When Ogedei died so Batu had to withdraw as prep for struggle for succession Seljuk Sultan several! Also of not much use ( good in open battles and on steppes etc ) as! Documentation to that effect or is it speculative west into Europe, died Please read the rules participating! Had not been finished of completly that the Mongols and their armour was too. Those forts with their own their armour was superior too were, at that time the! Ogedei died so Batu had to withdraw as prep for struggle for succession hungary... Forces ( if they were united in an ahistorical way enough at siege warfare became aware of a wider... Khan himself simply not good enough at siege warfare of effort / reward, of. Alternatively, do you ( or anyone else reading this ) know how historically accurate Conn Igguldens Conqueror! Hungary as well, death and Resurrection by John Man Reddit on an old.... As a Eurasian Network use HWK 534-539 and underline the answers to following. Other strengths are also of not much use ( good in open battles and steppes...